book-club's Diaryland Diary ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . Do you suppose that he might become resentful of Neville? I had wondered that at one point. However with Neville, JK explores the effect that problems with a parents mental health can cause for a child. I almost get the feeling that that is why we got to see Neville with his parents, to allow HP to feel some empathy with the other boy who could have been chosen, to see that things didn't turn out all smiles for the one who got away (as it were) too. They have something in common. They have both lost their Parents, the only difference is that Neville still has their 'shells' left. Harry has the Patronus. I must confess that although I have read all the Potter books, I am not a huge fan and will therefore have a tendancy to be critical of JK's work. I do respect what she has done enormously, the books just don't sit well with me. Things are still too black and white throughout the whole novel. Draco Malfoy still does the smarmy little git act, yet he would be a much more interesting character if he had something human in him, instead of a simple straight cut school bully flavour. As we see a rise of darkness in Harry as he battles with the problems of being a teenager and being Harry Potter, something similar should have arisen in Draco. Well, not should have, but it would have been an interesting parallel Everything just felt very cardboard cut out to me. The good guys got their streak of human faults and darkness, that little bit of chaos that sometimes makes even the most well intended action seem mired in bitterness. However the bad guys stayed at their extremes of evil, with no real reason for them being evil. Except, perhaps, fear. For fear would seem to be Voldemort's best tool throughout the whole book. I just found the book a chore to get to. I know it was written for children, and for young adults, but it doesn't have the escapism of the first ones that made them so charming, and allowed you to put aside the errors in the story telling. Hermione and Ron remain the true stars of the book, in my opinion. 1:22 p.m. - 2003-07-04 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Erin-wondering something For those of who who haven't finished the book yet, this contains SPOILERS!!! How do you think that Harry will react once it sinks in that none of this had to happen? If Voldemort had just chosen Neville instead then Harry would have parents and a normal life. He wouldn't have to live with the Dursleys and his fate wouldn't rest on a duel where one will die and one will live. Do you suppose that he might become resentful of Neville? I seriously hope he doesn't. 11:59 a.m. - 2003-07-03 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Firstly, I have not finished OotP. I have read a good deal of the first half, however, my younger sister is now currently hiding the book to keep me from reading it faster that she is. I�ll have to go trash her room for it sometime soon! As for my thoughts� Well, as a great deal of the reviewers have mentioned I see the change in Harry�s personality and character. Although I am not extremely fond of this new quick to anger and nastier Harry, I do feel that it adds to the realism and show of frustration of the situations he is placed in. If it were I, would I yell and scream as much? I guess it�s possible.I guess I could add more if I had more time and could drag the book out of my sisters quite good [as I haven�t found it yet] hiding place and finish it. Ah well I�m off on a book hunt! 08:46 p.m. - 2003-07-02 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh what a sad, sad day it was. I've come to the decision that this book was indeed a setter, setting up the scene and the information for the big wallop that is going to come in the final two books. It will be interesting to see the other protection against Dark arts students given the opportunities to use their skills hopefully including their patronuses. And who knows, maybe something will happen between harry and Parvatti, because he did seem quite taken by her hair, but then again he could have just been distracted? 5:18 p.m. - 2003-07-02 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, that's what I get for taking my time to think about the subject. Just about everything I've thought about was already said! I got the book Friday night at a Harry Potter party because my friend works at a book store. I finished it Sunday morning. It was really strange to see the relationship between Harry and Cho progress and then crumble. I was a little disappointed to see it end the way it did. After I finished the book however, I remembered how Lily loathed James at one time. So I'm hoping maybe in the future they might hook up again. Also, did anyone else notice that Harry was checking out Parvati's hair just before he had the vision of Sirius? I can't help but wonder how that will progress. I'll have to read the book again to decide how I really feel about it, but that happened with the last two books too. 8:44 a.m. - 2003-07-01 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sootica -> always so much stuff to do Arg! I am going to start a new page soon cos this one is long long long.. but not right now. I really liked Ginny in this book. Before she was just quiet and stuff and hardly said a word. Now she shows us exactly what she is � a Weasley and sister of her brothers. I guess I also like her cos she reminds me of myself. I have lots of my brother�s character in me. I do silly little dances with them and their friends around the dinner table. Ginny does a silly tribal-like dance with Fred and George in OotP. Hehe, I also laughed when Ron cracked it at her starting to date cos I could see that happening a mile off. He�s so protective of his little sis � awww! But Ron�s all left out now, he�s �innocent� shall we say? JK really needs to hurry up with this Ron/Hermione thing. But, if it never happens in all 7 books I�ll be very disappointed cos I�ve always felt it was there. Cmon, she kisses him on the cheek! He gets all annoyed of her liking Victor! ;) -- sootica 9:24 p.m. - 2003-07-01 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vixen-finding a lot of new things to write about I never noticed the Patronus thing. Maybe Hermione's Patronus is an otter because it's associated with water and may be a thing she relates to Victor. (I realize I'm stretching.) I mean, he did save her from the water in the Second Task. As for Harry's bad mood, I agree. It may be that he just has too much to deal with now and his life hasn't been the best. He has every right to be upset. What was Cho's Patronus again? 8:08 p.m. - 2003-06-30 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suppose it's sort of pointless by now, but POSSIBLE SPOILERS! I thought "ooh, an otter, cute," and sort of forgot about the matter. What is Cho's Patronus? I didn't cry when he died, either. But I did get teary. Otters aren't that slow, I don't think�besides, I don't think Patronuses (Patronii?) necessarily follow the rules of gravity and physics (especially not the ones that are little more than mist). Assumably the skill of the person casting the spell matters more than the form the Patronus takes. On a random aside, Patronuses�Patronii�remind me of the daemons from the His Dark Materials trilogy (Golden Compass and such). Ginny didn't seem to have much of a personality to me. She just sort of hung around being competent, I suppose. Oh well. I tend to dislike strong characters of both genders, or at least prefer the weaker ones. (Jealous? Me?) 10:26 p.m. - 2003-06-30 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Erin, I'm glad you brought up their Patronuses, because I was wondering the same thing myself. I searched the HP lexicon and I was reminded James' Animagi form is a stag, so it would make sense that Harry's Patronus is one as well. A Patronus is usually that of an animal, which is the embodiment of the positive thoughts of the caster [perhaps Hermione's happy thoughts have something to do water?]. Since Hermione is a main character, I think there's the chance we might find out why her's is an otter. To me, that seems like somewhat of a lame Patronus, that it wouldn't be of much help. I assume they're supposed to charge at Dementor's to get rid of them and it would seem that an otter would be awfully slow. I looked up the background of Hermione's name, and JKR named her after the Hermione in a Winter's Tale and as far as I know there's nothing about otters in that play. As an offhand comment, it would be funny if Ron's Patronus was a spider. Though I suppose that would be going against what a Patronus embodies. I forgot to mention in my first post how much I enjoyed Ginny. Though would anyone agree her sudden personality seemed to be spurred rather quickly? I was extremely surprised to see her acting as if Harry were no different then a fly on the wall [well, perhaps not that laid back, but still]. Not that I'm complaining, it's nice to see another strong female character, and I only hope it goes that way with Luna as well and that we'll see more of her. So far Hermione and Ginny seem so... typically girlish, and Luna just breaks all the cliches. Yep, I'll quit rambling :) By the way, does each book discussion stay on the same page till we start a new book? 5:14 p.m. - 2003-06-30 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, well I've finisehd this book last week and there WILL BE SPOILERS. I would just like to say that I truly loath UUmbridge. I never thought that I could hate a fictional character so much before but now I have. I guess that she represents every kid's worst nightmare when it comes to school. Was it just me who didn't have any tears for when Sirius died? I was sadden by his passing but no tears were shed on my part. Maybe I was expecting this dramtic death scene or something I don't know. I just wasn't expecting his going to be so...swift. One minute he was there and the next he wasn't, it was like his death was an accident... Maybe it was the fact that ever since it was leaked that someone would die everyone's been speculating about who it would be. If the death had totally caught me off guard it might have made a bigger impact on me. I know that for some people Harry and Cho's realtionship made no sense and was kind of pointless but I see it as more realistic. What relationship is a total fairy tale devoid of stormy waters? I just have one question, did anyone cath what significance the other people's patronuses had? Namely Hermione's and Cho's? 7:20 p.m. - 2003-06-30 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :: small amounts of SPOILER -- I've finished :: While I do think Harry's moodiness is probably due in part to his age, he has more reason than more teenagers. Living in a cupboard can do that to a person. And up until Hogwarts, no friends, no real family, let alone anything remotely resembling a positive role model. Aherm. Anyway . . . I read this somewhere while surfing other people's reactions to the book: Luna served to show Harry's compassion, when at the end he was upset that people laughed at her. As opposed to James and his bullying of Snape. On the other hand, Harry still hates Draco, which will probably be significant later on, what with the Sorting Hat's speech and all. "...but I know that the climax of the series was the end of book four..." That's . . . very early, for the climax of the series. I'd expect it to be in the seventh book; it's difficult to have entire novels be falling action. As a high school student, I found OoP to be very interesting in its portrayal of school. Professor Umbridge is, well, my worst nightmare, and she seriously upset me more than the death (up until the High Inquisitor thing, at which point I burst out laughing and never really stopped). She brought back bad memories of certain horrible teachers I've had, too. And after my grueling junior year, Hogwarts's anarchy had a certain appeal . . . I didn't pay much attention to the way Hogwarts was portrayed before, but OoP gets pretty outrageous. 6:46 p.m. - 2003-06-30 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great book discussion so far! SPOILERS AHEAD! I finished reading this book a while ago, and I'm onto something else, but I really enjoyed this book, though Harry's crabby mood really did get me down as well. I don't think Voldemort is controlling his moods so much as Harry has turned into a typical teenager: demanding and upset at the tiniest thing. I was happy for Harry when he and Cho finally kissed, but I'm also glad to see that Harry realizes that sometimes, the reality of a dream realized can often be disappointing. I have a feeling Harry's going to be seeing a lot of disappointment in his life in the next two books. Luna was one of my favorite characters, and she did have a purpose, as her father owned the magazine that finally got Harry some people believing him. She also may pop up in the future as a possible love interest for Harry, which I think would be incredibly too interesting. Harry finding a friend (and possibly something more) where he least expects it. It's kind of a noble idea. I thought the duel between Moldywarts and Dumbledore was interesting, but it was kind of short. I'm not incredibly sure where the climax of the book was supposed to be, but I know that the climax of the series was the end of book four, so I see this as nearing the end of Act IV of a Shakespeare play and we're about to get to the resolution. Of course, I could be wrong. This second war should be interesting, since we only get to hear tales of the first. I think the death scene was a bit anti-climatic too. Well.. I've said all I can. Have a great read everybody. Vixen 11:06 p.m. - 2003-06-29 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ellen, full of ideas Eve, I like your idea about Voldemort controlling Harry's emotions. That could really change things in the next few books if Voldemort did have more control over Harry. I also wanted to add something about the prophecy. All through the previous books Dumbledore and other teachers and students have talked about how unreliable prophecies and such are. Divination is the joke class, where Harry and Ron make everything up and get away with it. The Firenze comes along and emphasizes that Divination can't be trusted. So why then would J. K. Rowling put a prophecy in that everyone's supposed to automatically believe? I think it's very possible that Neville is the person that is supposed to kill Voldemort, or someone else will kill him, or that Voldemort didn't give Harry his powers, or...or...something else. Because if this prophecy is completely true (and Professor Trelawney's previous one was), then it kind of ruins everything about prophecies, etc., that we've been told before. Just an idea. 5:18 p.m. - 2003-06-29 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ::waves:: First, THIS CONTAINS SPOILERS! I've already finished the book. So, unfortunately, I don't have a whole lot of new opinions to add. Like most Harry Potter fans, Order of the Phoenix wasn't my favourite book of the series. But I can let that slide because I think it's a "setup" book. What I mean by that is, it's setting up the general tone and feel of the sixth and seventh. Unfortunately for JKR, she only has a set number of books to write the story in, so she can't spend a couple trying to make the universe slowly darker and more evil. To me, the fifth book seems like an adult spin-off of the first four. What I did kind of miss were all the small seperate stories that eventually seem to tie in to one another at the very end. But because at the end everything is not resolved it makes sense. I was rather disappointed at Dumbledore's explanations for everything, though. When we got that teaser line that he's going to tell Harry everything I was expecting a lot more. It just kind of seemed like he just elaborated a bit more on what we already know. The prophecy was disappointing as well. I really do think it would've been neat had it been Neville Voldemort was supposed to kill and not Harry, but I suppose then it would have to be a series about Neville. Or it could've reinforced that people shouldn't always listen to prophecies, or if they do they should listen to ALL of it. As for Harry, I kind of have my own theory on him that I'm sure someone could probably disprove but oh well. We know that Harry could feel Voldemort's strong emotions, Dumbledore told us that. But we also saw how angry Harry was throughout the whole book, which to me isn't surprising given what he's been through, but I mean what if there's a chance not all of that anger is really his? Isn't it possible Dumbledore isn't totally aware of how much Voldemort is manipulating the bond between him and Harry? What if Voldemort is controlling Harry's emotions more then we believe? Maybe as a way to turn the people that love Harry against him. But anyway. Maybe it's because I haven't read the first four books in awhile, but Harry's anger didn't surprise or annoy me at all. I think a lot of people in OotP are also showing the opposite sides of themselves. We saw Dumbledore making mistakes, Harry being angry, Ginny [God love that girl!] being calm and collected around Harry and all around a cool girl, Neville being brave. Like I said earlier, I think this is the setup book and it's just preparing us for 6 and 7. So, with all the negativity, I still liked this book, and I still plan to read it over and over again because it's in JKR's style to hide a bunch of clues right in front of our eyes. 1:44 p.m. - 2003-06-29 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sootica: bringing a link to the table Tisk tisk, bad sootica! I knew I shouldn't have read that, about the death and all, cos I clicked straight away who is was.. I was just tempted beyound control! :P Oh well, this means I can read all the spoilers on WitchWeekly now! :P -- sootica 10:45 p.m. - 2003-06-29 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Caitlin finished the book! I finished the new Harry Potter book about 3 days ago. I have to say, I thought it was very good, but somethings annoyed me. Hope this doesn't spoil for anyone who hasn't read the book, but it may, so if you're not done stay away! For instance, Harry annoyed me. He used to be so nice. But now every time someone says the slightest thing, he suddenly would lash out at them and be screaming and...I just think that Harry has lots of anger management problems. I can't believe that that character died! I really thought there was no need for him to die, but he did and it was so so so so sad. He wasn't my favorite adult character, but still! He was the only good family Harry had left and now all Harry has is the Dursleys. Luna Lovegood...she was crazy. She was also a bit annoying. Like what was with reading her magazine upside down? I seriously think that there was no point for her to be in the story. I'm so glad that Cho and Harry kissed in the middle of the book, but then they had to get mad at each other! And the book just ended! Same thing with Percy - he walked out (he irked me, he was being such a slimy git). Then you never saw if he made up with his family or anything. That darn Ministry. Fudge acting so evil, I wanted to strangle him. Same with Umbridge. I wanted to kill her! What she did to Harry and Lee in detentions was awful! And banning him and the twins from Quidditch for LIFE? Evil! Luckily they were reinstated at the end, ha ha to what happened to Umbridge! Dumbledore was not as good as usual. The whole prohpecy thing...everything led up to it and everything about it I knew except Neville (like the entry below). Poor Neville! What happened to his parents is so awful. *cries* All in all, the book was good. Just those things above made me MAD! 10:50 a.m. - 2003-06-28 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ellen, who has rambled on long enough The wonderful thing about being on at 8 in the morning...you can update right away! I don't want to ruin it for anyone who hasn't finished yet, but I found this one to be very different from the previous four. Before, Harry, Hermione and Ron always had something they were looking for, or something they were trying to solve. And everything went right for Harry, everyone loved him (well, almost everyone), and it all ended happily. This one, everything went wrong, Harry was not everyone's favorite boy anymore, and the ending was not very happy. This isn't necessarily bad, because sometimes I found the books too perfect, but I kind of miss the unrealitic, perfect and happy story. Also, instead of having a purpose, the story seemed mostly about just dealing with everything that went wrong. I was very excited by the reappearances of Moody and Lupin, and the new characters, such as Tonks and Luna. And Fred and George continue to make me laugh, while Ginny and Neville were much better in this book than in previous ones. I found parts of the book actually extremely funny, which surprised me because I thought it would be a much darker book. I wasn't as impressed with Dumbledore this time. I thought that he wasn't involved in the story until the end and the made too many mistakes to be the all-knowing Dumbledore we think of. I guess that goes along with the fact that everything in the book was a lot more realistic. Also, both Harry's and Sirius' moodiness bothered me. I understand Harry was just being a teenager, but most 15 years old boys I know are more immature and stupid rather than angry and moody - more like James and Siriues in Snape's memory. That bit also made Jamed and Sirius seem less perfect, and Snape more human, which I liked. And the Harry and Cho few page romance was pointless and a waste of time. But that's all little things. I only had two real problems with the book. The ending dissapointed me. Not only did someone die, but the prophecy was built up to be so much, and except for the Neville twist, it wasn't really anything new and exciting. Secondly, the entire book seemed more like a fight against the ministry rather than Voldemort. Umbridge was the villian until the very end when Voldemort reappeared. I'm still undecided as to whether I like these new, realistic and less perfect characters. And I think I still prefer the 3rd and 4th books, but this one comes close behind them. Sorry that was so long, I could talk about this book forever if I was allowed to! 8:47 a.m. - 2003-06-28 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sootica always opens up a new page Well, after clicking �add an entry� 50 thousand times, I finally get to see the white box, and not the annoying server-is-busy page... I can�t say much, cos I�m only up to page 248 (about 1 third through the book). I�m attempting to savour it and I think I�m doing a pretty damn fine job. I don�t want to read it fast, cos I can�t go back to the time of actually not knowing what is going to happen. I was a bit startled by Harry�s.. er.. feistiness. He goes from a nice, placid ever-curious guy to a �shut up!� and quick-to-get-angry and yells-at-his-friends guy. But I remembered his age and thought �yeah, he�s just being teenagery�, but it was still kinda annoying. I can�t really tell if I like it or love it or anything yet. I need to get away from the raving and multi-millions and decide for myself. I remember Harry back in the days of no fandom and sometimes I wish I could be back there. Just me and the Philosopher�s Stone. Another thing � I wish Hermione could kick some butt again! She�s cool when she gets to slap people and makes good calls! -- sootica 1:39 p.m. - 2003-06-27 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was more upset by the mirror bit after the death than the death itself. Disappointment like that makes me wince, and yes, the death was anticlimactic. Still, I don't think that's very new�the death in the previous book was sort of trampled on by the climax. Harry was much angrier in Order of the Phoenix overall than in any of the other books, and while it wasn't exactly cheering, I'm glad. Considering his life and his age, it makes sense. It also gave him more of an active role in the story, whereas before I found him rather passive and flat. Now he's, well, angry and flat. Strangely, OoP seemed less . . . rich, maybe, than the earlier books, but it also went by more quickly for me. Streamlined, I suppose. I found Snape's flashback fascinating. I was glad to see James being nasty, because it seemed realistic and helped gave the Potterverse its growing shades-of-gray morality. I used to think it annoyingly polarized, but that seems to be changing nicely. Besides, Snape is an interesting character, with his little hate triangle with James and Harry. 10:57 p.m. - 2003-06-26 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the Book Club and lets get this moving!
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, what are our thoughts? Did we love it? Hate it? Have we finished reading it's massive length yet? 11:25 a.m. - 2003-06-27 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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